I am having a problem with all the tests claiming that the PHEV will get a combined mpg figure of 25 with the battery depleted and 56 MPGe. First of all, why would you ever have a completely depleted battery short of a long highway trip with no braking? This does have regenerative braking, correct? My understanding is it will alway have 10% charge, even if it uses the gas engine to maintain that, so that you always have the full 323 hp when needed. So, with the battery always available like a normal hybrid, but not fully charged (and basically driving like an EV), what should the average combined mpg be? No way, should it be 25 mpg. If the Highlander with a 2.5 gas engine gets 35+ I would expect the CX90 to be closer to that figure. In normal mode, it should cycle between gas and EV mode like any hybrid since it is a normal hybrid, just with a much larger battery. Am I missing something? Maybe I don't fully understand what MPGe is? What I believe it is is an equivalent measure of how far a vehicle can travel on one gallon of gasoline. Which doesn't mean too much. Basically, with full charge, you get about 25 miles from battery plus 25 more miles with a gallon of gas so thats about 50. If MPGe really means the comparable mpg for a full tank than I would be happy with 56 but I don't think it does. Longer tests of the CX60 PHEV are usually claimng 35-45 mpg combined with daily charging. That makes sense compared to a Highlander since the CX90 doesn't have the soul crushing CVT and considerably more power. Am I missing something?
PHEV real world gas mileage
MazdaMan
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Car and Driver just published a review with testing on the PHEV: Tested: 2024 Mazda CX-90 PHEV Is Quicker Than the Six
On a standard loop going 75 mph, they got 28 mpg in hybrid mode. The smaller CX-5 gets 24 mpg in the same test. In EV mode they got 26 miles at 75 mph. That's very impressive. Just for comparison, my Honda Clarity PHEV has a 48 mile EPA EV range but only managed 41 miles in the Car and Driver's test.
On a standard loop going 75 mph, they got 28 mpg in hybrid mode. The smaller CX-5 gets 24 mpg in the same test. In EV mode they got 26 miles at 75 mph. That's very impressive. Just for comparison, my Honda Clarity PHEV has a 48 mile EPA EV range but only managed 41 miles in the Car and Driver's test.
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I have had the car for a couple of weeks now and here is what I have experienced in Northern Virginia area. I have an average mpg at 67 which I find amazing for a car this heavy. I experimented with the self-charging function and saw my MPG go down fast, so it does use more fuel when you have the engine self charge. I doubt I will use that anyway. I have a ChargePoint Home Flex charger with a 50 amp / 240 volt line. It takes about 2 hours to charge each night. My power company offers a dual option for power. I pay 11 cents a kilowatt from 6am to 11pm, then switch to 5 cents from 11pm to 6am. So, a whole lot cheaper at night. I run my pool pump at night and charge the car too. Saves a bundle during summer months if I turn on the pool heat pump as well. I selected to use the more aggressive regenerative braking and love that I can coast almost to stop without having to brake the car.
As for charging to 100%, I always charge to the 100% level. Why? I'm leasing the car for 3 years and it's covered by the warranty if the battery fails. I'll get a new car after that and most likely go full EV. When I charge to 100% it shows 28 miles of EV range and that has been pretty close to correct. I bet in the winter it will go down a bit due to cold temps. However, we're supposed to have a very warm winter here in Virginia in 2024 so it may not change.
I am retired and so most of my driving is all EV mode due to short trips. We fly when going on vacation so no long road trips anymore. I am loving the gas mileage. Impressive to say the least.
As for charging to 100%, I always charge to the 100% level. Why? I'm leasing the car for 3 years and it's covered by the warranty if the battery fails. I'll get a new car after that and most likely go full EV. When I charge to 100% it shows 28 miles of EV range and that has been pretty close to correct. I bet in the winter it will go down a bit due to cold temps. However, we're supposed to have a very warm winter here in Virginia in 2024 so it may not change.
I am retired and so most of my driving is all EV mode due to short trips. We fly when going on vacation so no long road trips anymore. I am loving the gas mileage. Impressive to say the least.
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We last filled the tank on August 2. Driven 925 miles since then and mpg on the gauge is currently sitting at 66.7 mpg. Level 2 charger at home and with our electricity rate, it costs approximately $1 to fully charge. We currently have about 60 more miles of range in the gas tank. When I finally do another fill, I'm going to calculate in the electricity costs to determine the "real world" mpg.
I did some rough calculations, if you drive the PHEV 20K KM (13K Miles) / year , gas in Canada is $1.4 / L (ave) and $0.08 / kwh electricity, and you do 3/4 all electric and 1/4 gas on that range you can save about $1800 / year! In 10 years its $18K! good deal IMO and we help the climate. I've used my current CX-9 fuel economy which is not that great averaging 10 L/ 100 Km or ~24 MPG
Let me try to explain this coming from a Prius V driver, now driving a cx-90 phev.
Cx-90 full EV gives me over 25 miles in city and hwy.
There really is no hybrid mode. It's just normal mode, which combines ev and engine. It is not a hybrid like a toyota. Normal mode will net you about 50-60's MPG UNTIL your battery is depleted.
When you PHEV battery is depleted, it runs like a normal car with some mild hybrid tech, which nets you around 25 mpgs.
Combine any of these modes/charge mode to get a plethora of different mpgs.
Hope this helps.
Cx-90 full EV gives me over 25 miles in city and hwy.
There really is no hybrid mode. It's just normal mode, which combines ev and engine. It is not a hybrid like a toyota. Normal mode will net you about 50-60's MPG UNTIL your battery is depleted.
When you PHEV battery is depleted, it runs like a normal car with some mild hybrid tech, which nets you around 25 mpgs.
Combine any of these modes/charge mode to get a plethora of different mpgs.
Hope this helps.
The difference is Prius is a much lighter car so your regen energy goes much longer vs the cx90.Let me try to explain this coming from a Prius V driver, now driving a cx-90 phev.
Cx-90 full EV gives me over 25 miles in city and hwy.
There really is no hybrid mode. It's just normal mode, which combines ev and engine. It is not a hybrid like a toyota. Normal mode will net you about 50-60's MPG UNTIL your battery is depleted.
When you PHEV battery is depleted, it runs like a normal car with some mild hybrid tech, which nets you around 25 mpgs.
Combine any of these modes/charge mode to get a plethora of different mpgs.
Hope this helps.
I keep a log book on my charging, and gas mileage for trips of any distance. Obviously my to the gym and back or grocery are all EV only. I love how you can track the trip/ per start. I also love how it keeps track of the lifetime average.
1. By now I have figured out that the per Kw efficiency figure is most effected by pure EV use of heating and air which will drop it drastically. Mine is currently 2.4 Kw/mile.
2. I am seeing 35-36 mpg off the ICE running with the generator running. Then again I use 91 AKI non-ethanol fuel exclusively.
3. I keep my charging at 80% max.
4. I will always activate my ICE/gen on longer trips when I reach 2 EV miles range.
5. I always let the gas engine warm and condition in weather under 32 F.
6. Once a month I will charge to 100 % battery. This practice I was instructed by an SME buddy who is an EV master tech at an aftermarket electric car repair facility. He says its like "exercise" for your battery. He also said 80% is the sweet spot to make the battery pack last like 15 years.** He rebuilds problem battery packs for Teslas and such.
He further stated that if you can afford the "time" factor, as in charging over-night, 110volt was even better than level 2 240volt, for longevity. He stated our pack is designed for level 2, and should last between 8-10 years, not losing more than 1% capacity per year beyond 5 or 6 years. The fact of all batteries is the slower you charge them the easier on their life cycles it is.
***That's why all he does is replace and or repair Tesla battery packs,...SUPERCHARGERS. He has replaced total packs at 2 years old (TESLA).
***He did say that Mazda's battery packs (Panasonic) cells are the highest quality, most reliable, and least fire risk.
He stated the smaller a battery pack, (like ours), the less potential problems in the long run.
1. By now I have figured out that the per Kw efficiency figure is most effected by pure EV use of heating and air which will drop it drastically. Mine is currently 2.4 Kw/mile.
2. I am seeing 35-36 mpg off the ICE running with the generator running. Then again I use 91 AKI non-ethanol fuel exclusively.
3. I keep my charging at 80% max.
4. I will always activate my ICE/gen on longer trips when I reach 2 EV miles range.
5. I always let the gas engine warm and condition in weather under 32 F.
6. Once a month I will charge to 100 % battery. This practice I was instructed by an SME buddy who is an EV master tech at an aftermarket electric car repair facility. He says its like "exercise" for your battery. He also said 80% is the sweet spot to make the battery pack last like 15 years.** He rebuilds problem battery packs for Teslas and such.
He further stated that if you can afford the "time" factor, as in charging over-night, 110volt was even better than level 2 240volt, for longevity. He stated our pack is designed for level 2, and should last between 8-10 years, not losing more than 1% capacity per year beyond 5 or 6 years. The fact of all batteries is the slower you charge them the easier on their life cycles it is.
***That's why all he does is replace and or repair Tesla battery packs,...SUPERCHARGERS. He has replaced total packs at 2 years old (TESLA).
***He did say that Mazda's battery packs (Panasonic) cells are the highest quality, most reliable, and least fire risk.
He stated the smaller a battery pack, (like ours), the less potential problems in the long run.
Yes, it is extremely misleading, to say the least.
I figured a simple test might be in order. So, last week we made a trip to Portland.. about 250 miles one way. Temp mid 40’s. All interstate highways. I-84 and 182. Zero wind. Cruise control set at 70 MPH. Was able to stay in cruise 90% of the time. Traffic was VERY light. To Portland with Hybrid disabled. 22.5 MPG. On the return trip running in “normal” hybrid mode 28.7 MPG. So I guess Hybrid mode does work… I was skeptical because you have no way of telling when you are in battery mode, unless it has some sort of system that uses both electric and gas at the same time.”
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Thanks all for your comments and data. Seems consistent with my PHEV use. I agree that due to the heavy weight the PHEV isn't as economical to use vs any lighter EV. Still decently good in my opinion on efficiency. Yes, I would like a bigger capacity battery but space and weight are limiting factors. As technology improves I hope this makes a difference.
In cold climates there is much work to be done. Battery range suffers.
In cold climates there is much work to be done. Battery range suffers.
Quick question - not sure what you mean by "Hybrid disabled." Didn't think you could "disable" the Hybrid system. The "Hybrid" system, I assume is "Normal" or "Sport" mode, when the car is using a combination of gas/electric?
On your return trip from Portland, was the battery 100% charged? If so, does it stay charged during "normal/hybrid" mode, or is there a point at which the battery is exhausted, and you're left with just the gas engine?
I will potentially be purchasing a new 2025 CX-90 PHEV Premium Sport tomorrow and am just trying to wrap my head around efficiency potential. Numbers are all over the map. Just really interested in what MPG looks like (and overall range in miles) with respect to a road trip. If you have 100% charge, a full tank of gas, take off in normal mode and drive until you're tank is empty.
As my computer guru friend would always say... RTFM. Read the "fine" manual.
On your return trip from Portland, was the battery 100% charged? If so, does it stay charged during "normal/hybrid" mode, or is there a point at which the battery is exhausted, and you're left with just the gas engine?
Yes... read on.
Obviously you don't understand how a "Hybrid" works. This is my now 5th Hybrid. 4 Fords and now a Mazda. THe thing I don't like about the Mazda is you can't really tell when if is running on battery... You could with all my Fords... you'd be driving down the highway and all of a sudden the engine oil pressure gauge would go to ZERO... scared the hell out of me the first time I saw it. Basically it was telling you taht the hybrid battery had enough of a charge to be able to take over for a short while and run on battery. My first Ford Fusion would run for about a mile and a half then the engine would kick on to charge the battery. It would constantly cycle between running on gasoline, then battery then gasoline. Pretty simple. The Mazda does the same thing but there isn't really any good way to determine what mode it is currently operating in. On my F-150 Hybrid the first thing you would notice is the RPMs drop to zero... then the oil presssure gauge would drop to zero. Guess what... we are running on battery. With the mazda you have no tachometer in Normal mode and they apparently have some sort of exclusion circuitry such that the oil pressure warning light is locked out while running in Hybrid mode.... OR the engine just reverts to an "idle" mode with the engine still running.
Am I missing something...the indicator on display shows EV.
A lot of confusion can be attributed to the fact that manufacturers and consumers industry regulators happily allowed the confusion to persist, or worse yet, they promoted it to enhance EV adoption.
A few things:
MPGe is not comparable to MPG
--> MPGe attempts to quantify how far an Electric drivetrain can travel on the energy content equivalent to a gallon of gasoline. It is not intended to be an achievable MPG, and certainly not as an overall MPG average.
PHEV, Mild Hybrid and Full Hybrid configurations are not comparable to each other
A Mild Hybrid like on the Inline6 CX90/70 pretty much exists solely to facilitate a better Auto Start/Stop experience. Typically a 48V architecture and motor exists solely to aid in better re-starting of the engine compared to a 12V starter-based restart, and can also assist with initial efforts to get the vehicle moving, such as building momentum on the first or so rotation of the wheels. It isn't meant to continually assist the engine or motivate the drivetrain on an extended basis.
A Traditional Hybrid on the other hand is intended for extended electric assist, and therefore utilizes larger traction motors and battery packs to meet this requirement. These both add weight, cost and require more packaging space. Typically a Full Hybrid cannot motivate the vehicle solely on electricity, though there are exceptions.
A PHEV which operates similarly to a Full Hybrid, but again ramps up the power of the motor(s) and the size of the battery in order to facilitate some amount of all-electric driving. It will also operate like a Full Hybrid at times in that it can provide power concurrently to the ICE engine to provide greater combined power output.
Both Full Hybrid and PHEV powertrain configurations will vary by vehicle, in terms of how the electric motors route power to the wheels - some vehicles (Toyota Hybrids, for example) connect the motors directly to the wheels - no power is sent through the transmission. Other vehicles, like our Mazdas and Ford trucks sandwich the electric motor between the Engine and Transmission, therefore the electric motor power routes through the transmission. Some Mild Hybrids attach the electric motor to the engine crank. And then there are configurations like some Honda hybrids and future PHEVs, where it gets even more complicated and/or doesn't even connect the ICE engine to the drivetrain.
If you seldom plug in your PHEV then a PHEV is not for you
Because a PHEV has bigger and heavier motors and batteries compared to a Hybrid, that means to take advantage of a PHEV one must plug it in for charging consistently, and drive in pure Electric mode often. If one does not do so, then you are simply operating the vehicle as a traditional Full Hybrid, but with a severe weight penalty, which is the top (but not only) reason why that driving style is less efficient than an equivalent Hybrid, which can be 400-600 lbs lighter than a comparable PHEV. Once a CX90/70 shows no remaining EV miles, it is simply operating as a Full Hybrid - it is not actually "out of battery."
As always, driving style has the biggest impact on mpg
Manufacturers formulate MPG estimates (and sometimes submit to EPA, etc. agencies for validation) based on scenarios rarely seen in the real world. This includes speeds lower than seen on a highway, leisurely acceleration and no major elevation changes (hills etc.). No 2 drivers have the exact same style and drive the exact same routes.
TL;DR
Bottom line is, to get an accurate read on MPG, just measure it the same way your pappy did back in the old days - reset your trip each time you fill up with gas, and calculate the Miles you rack up between fill-ups and divide by the amount of gas you fill up with. All other "instant" or short term readings, such as on the dash readout, are too small a sample to consider seriously.
A few things:
MPGe is not comparable to MPG
--> MPGe attempts to quantify how far an Electric drivetrain can travel on the energy content equivalent to a gallon of gasoline. It is not intended to be an achievable MPG, and certainly not as an overall MPG average.
PHEV, Mild Hybrid and Full Hybrid configurations are not comparable to each other
A Mild Hybrid like on the Inline6 CX90/70 pretty much exists solely to facilitate a better Auto Start/Stop experience. Typically a 48V architecture and motor exists solely to aid in better re-starting of the engine compared to a 12V starter-based restart, and can also assist with initial efforts to get the vehicle moving, such as building momentum on the first or so rotation of the wheels. It isn't meant to continually assist the engine or motivate the drivetrain on an extended basis.
A Traditional Hybrid on the other hand is intended for extended electric assist, and therefore utilizes larger traction motors and battery packs to meet this requirement. These both add weight, cost and require more packaging space. Typically a Full Hybrid cannot motivate the vehicle solely on electricity, though there are exceptions.
A PHEV which operates similarly to a Full Hybrid, but again ramps up the power of the motor(s) and the size of the battery in order to facilitate some amount of all-electric driving. It will also operate like a Full Hybrid at times in that it can provide power concurrently to the ICE engine to provide greater combined power output.
Both Full Hybrid and PHEV powertrain configurations will vary by vehicle, in terms of how the electric motors route power to the wheels - some vehicles (Toyota Hybrids, for example) connect the motors directly to the wheels - no power is sent through the transmission. Other vehicles, like our Mazdas and Ford trucks sandwich the electric motor between the Engine and Transmission, therefore the electric motor power routes through the transmission. Some Mild Hybrids attach the electric motor to the engine crank. And then there are configurations like some Honda hybrids and future PHEVs, where it gets even more complicated and/or doesn't even connect the ICE engine to the drivetrain.
If you seldom plug in your PHEV then a PHEV is not for you
Because a PHEV has bigger and heavier motors and batteries compared to a Hybrid, that means to take advantage of a PHEV one must plug it in for charging consistently, and drive in pure Electric mode often. If one does not do so, then you are simply operating the vehicle as a traditional Full Hybrid, but with a severe weight penalty, which is the top (but not only) reason why that driving style is less efficient than an equivalent Hybrid, which can be 400-600 lbs lighter than a comparable PHEV. Once a CX90/70 shows no remaining EV miles, it is simply operating as a Full Hybrid - it is not actually "out of battery."
As always, driving style has the biggest impact on mpg
Manufacturers formulate MPG estimates (and sometimes submit to EPA, etc. agencies for validation) based on scenarios rarely seen in the real world. This includes speeds lower than seen on a highway, leisurely acceleration and no major elevation changes (hills etc.). No 2 drivers have the exact same style and drive the exact same routes.
TL;DR
Bottom line is, to get an accurate read on MPG, just measure it the same way your pappy did back in the old days - reset your trip each time you fill up with gas, and calculate the Miles you rack up between fill-ups and divide by the amount of gas you fill up with. All other "instant" or short term readings, such as on the dash readout, are too small a sample to consider seriously.
I am not sure what the 37.5 mpg is telling you though in terms of actual operational cost ... yeah you are only buying 2 gallons of gas but the 20-25 mile electric range isn't "free" ... you pay the utility for that ... so 37.5 mpg is misleading from a cost efficiency standpoint ....
Mazda CX-90 Summertime...26 miles on a full charge. Winter... (30-40 deg) more like 18 miles. Highway trip, running in EV mode at 75 MPH, on the interstate, 28.5 MPG If you turn off the Hybrid mode and just let it charge the EV battery you have to drive well over !00 miles to fully charge the EV battery, all the while you will be getting a little over 20 MPG. This is cautioned in the owners manual as essentially a dumb idea because the math doesn't work out. Bottom line, put it in EV mode and leave it there. It can manage just fine without human intervention. If you want to know what its doing put the display up that shows gas mileage. you will notice that your mileage will change back and forth between about 20 MPG when it is not using the battery and 30 something when it is being assisted by the battery. Re the hybrid battery... you will never have to worry about replacing it. in 5 yrs, more likely less... battery powered EVs will be radically different and will have the range capability and charging capability that will render the current EVs obsolete.
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