[Etex]

Someone seems to be feeding bad info to Mazda Mediation, sorry to see this happening to you.

Factory original filter for Turbo S 3.3l (unique prefix = S550)

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

Someone seems to be feeding bad info to Mazda Mediation, sorry to see this happening to you.

Factory original filter for Turbo S 3.3l (unique prefix = S550)

View attachment 4499

This is the filter that I removed along with the box for the filter Mazda of Clearwater sold me and the window sticker that was on the car when I bought it.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

I got a bit of a back peddling response to my last email:

Mr. Eley,

We are not claiming that you are responsible for not maintaining the vehicle. However, it is clear that you purchased a vehicle from an agency that didn’t properly maintain the vehicle during their ownership and operation of said vehicle.

Thank you,

Jose Frausto Case Spec, Customer Mediation Customer Mediation O: 949-727-6114 jfraust1@mazdausa.com www.mazdausa.com

My response:

Mr. Frausto,

That is not "clear" at all. The "agency" this vehicle was purchased from maintains a fleet account with Firestone and has a system designed to promote on time maintenance. Your own dealers purchase these same cars from this same company and sell them on Mazda lots as certified pre owned. You have not done any form of inspection whatsoever to prove neglect. You still haven't addressed the issue that this vehicle was at Mazda of West Palm Beach 12 days before I bought it with the exact same amount of miles that were on it when I bought it, meaning with the EXACT same rod bearing issue, and failed to notate any issues in Mazdas system, or to Carfax, or to myself when I called to inquire about the Carfax reporting prior to purchasing the car. If you had actually done any investigation whatsoever then you would already know this. The car is sitting at Mazda of Clearwater with the exact same mileage as when it was sitting at Mazda of Palm Beach. They knew about the issue and failed to report it leaving potential customers vulnerable. If you fail to honor the warranty Mazda has put in writing for every vehicle they sell this battle will be fought in the courtroom as well as on mainstream media and on social media in the court of public opinion and you will lose. I will not stand by and let you set people up for despicable business practices such as this. My postings have already cost Mazda at least one sale of a new CX-90 that I'm aware of, there will be more.

Donald Eley

 

[Rich]

I apologize for not responding sooner. I'm still battling with them now. Initially they were claiming lack of maintenance records and front end damage. As of yesterday, 1/23/24 they are officially stating they are denying the warranty due to "outside influence". I'm not sure what that means but their own techs notes state that he found no sign the engine has been tampered with and it is very clean inside with visible metal particles. What I know about this car is this, it was part of a fleet and was fleet maintained with mandatory oil changes every 5-7k miles. The only proof I have is the oil change sticker on the windshield from firestone on 10/1/24 at 15,100 miles. Firestone corporate has the service records but is refusing to give them to me due to "privacy" concerns as I am not the customer on file. Carfax shows the car was at Mazda in West Palm Beach April 2024 stating "maintenance inspection completed". I contacted that dealer and they told me it was there for a recall but nothing else was needed and the car shows all green in their system. It was at another Mazda dealer in November 2024. According to Carfax it got the battery replaced. According to Mazda it also got the battery fuse replaced. Not sure why but I know these cars have battery issues that have been well documented. I don't think its relevant to the engine issue as there are no warning lights or malfunctions to indicate any problems, electrical or otherwise.

As for my hands on knowledge of this particular car. It arrived to me with a rod knock. I immediately inspected the car from front to back. We noticed a small amount of damage at the bottom of the front bumper and a dent in the lower part of the driver side fender where a trailer was backed into it. Other than that the cars exterior looked new and the interior looked and smelled new. The tires show very little wear all around. We pulled the engine covers and looked for any parts being replaced or any sign of tools touching any hardware on any engine components. Nothing has been touched. We noticed the front bumper cover had been replaced. Hood and fenders are original, bumper reinforcement is original so the car was in a minor front end incident that required replacement of the bumper cover but no mechanical parts such as the radiator, ac condenser, grille shutter, heat exchanger, radiator support, ABSOLUTELY NO ENGINE RELATED COMPONENTS HAVE BEEN TOUCHED. We took the oil fill cap off and ran a camera down. The engine looks absolutely brand new with no sludge, no discoloring of any components, nothing but new engine with metal particles. We put the car on the lift and pulled the lower covers to make sure something hadnt been run over and damaged the oil pan or any other components. Again, absolutely nothing has been touched. no damage, no tool marks, nothing. The engine had Pennzoil PZ-01 filter on it, which is what Firestone uses and is the correct filter for the vehicle. We pulled the filter for inspection and replaced it with a OEM Mazda filter purchased from Mazda of Clearwater. We do this with all of our cars, as we only use OEM or Wix filters and Mobil 1 oil. We removed the oil drain plug and drained a few ounces of oil out of the engine to examine. The oil was clean with visible metal particles. We did not drain the oil as it seemed better to leave it as is for the Mazda techs to inspect. The right floor pan cover was cracked so we replaced it with a new one from Mazda of Clearwater. Our inspection showed no signs of any damage to the engine or the plastic transmission pan for that matter, not sure why they went that route but ok, as well as no sign of anyone working on any mechanical part of this car, we towed it to Mazda of Clearwater and left it with their service department.

Heres what we know. Not one single mechanical part on this car has been touched by anyone other than the Mazda personnel at the plant. The engine looks brand new inside with metal particles everywhere consistent with rod bearing failure. There is no sign of lack of maintenance whatsoever. You simply cant neglect your oil changes without some visible sign in the form of sludge, carbon deposits, material discoloring, etc. If Mazdas flagship vehicles new engine can look simply spotless inside yet still come apart like this they have engine problems that will begin to surface. They probably already have.

We towed the car to Mazda of Clearwater and left it with their service department. The Mazda service tech did very little in his "inspection". He pulled it in the shop, made note of the engine noise, made note of the front bumper cover replacement, made note of the engine having no signs of external damage or tampering, and parked it back outside. A few days later I got a message saying the engine replacement would be 15kish dollars and the warranty would not cover it due to lack of maintenance records and front end damage. They have not pulled the oil pan, a valve cover or even bothered to run a camera down it like we did. They just denied it.

There are laws regarding warranty coverage. We will be moving forward with legal action on this. I would really appreciate anyone with internal engine failures posting here so we can find out how big of an issue this is.

You don't need a lawyer, you need documented proof the vehicle was maintained as required by the mfg. The mfg has every right to ask for maintenance records and if you fail to provide proof that the vehicle was maintained per MFG specs they can deny warranty coverage. If you can get the records and they meet the maint. requirements of the vehicle you may have the info for them to honor the warranty.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

You don't need a lawyer, you need documented proof the vehicle was maintained as required by the mfg. The mfg has every right to ask for maintenance records and if you fail to provide proof that the vehicle was maintained per MFG specs they can deny warranty coverage. If you can get the records and they meet the maint. requirements of the vehicle you may have the info for them to honor the warranty.

Theres no way a private individual can compel someone to give them records if they don't want to. Ive been through this with Ford and with Infiniti. Both times they investigated on their own, found no signs of oil breakdown and replaced the motors. Neglect has to be proven amd the dealers know it. This car has 15k miles on it. Ive ran a camera down in the engine and it is spotless. There's never been any oil breakdown in this motor. As Ive said before, if these engines are this sensitive to oil life the thin oil and extended service intervals set by the manufacturer are going to kill them. They know about the issue, they're just trying to avoid it. Mazda has many, many documented incidents where they have denied or tried to deny warranty coverage on many of their vehicles when there was more than adequate proof of service provided by the customer. They're just a crap company for anyone to have to deal with warranty work with them.

 

[Rich]

I'm not sure what your saying...

This is pretty cut and dry......No maintenance records (actual repair orders) and they don't have to cover the warranty claim.

This is from the Mazda Warranty Book:

Maintenance Records - Proof of Maintenance To continue warranty eligibility and to protect your investment, it is your responsibility to properly maintain your vehicle according to factory recommended schedules outlined in your Owner’s Manual. As part of this you must keep your maintenance records, receipts, repair orders and any other documents as evidence that maintenance was performed. You must present these documents, should any warranty coverage disagreement occur. Failure to do so can result in your warranty being voided either in whole or in part. 6. To Get Warranty Service You must take your Mazda Vehicle, along with this booklet, to a Mazda Dealer in the United States, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, Saipan, American Samoa, Canada or Mexico during its normal service hours. While any Mazda Dealer will perform warranty service, Mazda recommends that you return to the dealership where you purchased your Mazda Vehicle because you have already established a relationship with them. If you have any question or need assistance regarding this warranty, refer to “When You Need to Talk to Mazda” on page 9. This evidence may consist of the following: • Original copies of repair orders or other receipts that include the mileage and date the vehicle was serviced. Each receipt should be signed by a qualified automotive service technician. Note: • The Mazda Scheduled Maintenance Record, on page 53, must be completely filled out showing mileage, repair order number, date for each service, and signed by a qualified automotive service technician who service vehicles. • For self-maintenance, a statement that you completed the maintenance yourself, displaying mileage and the date the work was performed. Also, receipts for the replacement parts (fluid, filters, etc.) indicating the date and mileage must accompany this statement.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

I'm not sure what your saying...

This is pretty cut and dry......No maintenance records (actual repair orders) and they don't have to cover the warranty claim.

This is from the Mazda Warranty Book:

Maintenance Records - Proof of Maintenance To continue warranty eligibility and to protect your investment, it is your responsibility to properly maintain your vehicle according to factory recommended schedules outlined in your Owner’s Manual. As part of this you must keep your maintenance records, receipts, repair orders and any other documents as evidence that maintenance was performed. You must present these documents, should any warranty coverage disagreement occur. Failure to do so can result in your warranty being voided either in whole or in part. 6. To Get Warranty Service You must take your Mazda Vehicle, along with this booklet, to a Mazda Dealer in the United States, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, Saipan, American Samoa, Canada or Mexico during its normal service hours. While any Mazda Dealer will perform warranty service, Mazda recommends that you return to the dealership where you purchased your Mazda Vehicle because you have already established a relationship with them. If you have any question or need assistance regarding this warranty, refer to “When You Need to Talk to Mazda” on page 9. This evidence may consist of the following: • Original copies of repair orders or other receipts that include the mileage and date the vehicle was serviced. Each receipt should be signed by a qualified automotive service technician. Note: • The Mazda Scheduled Maintenance Record, on page 53, must be completely filled out showing mileage, repair order number, date for each service, and signed by a qualified automotive service technician who service vehicles. • For self-maintenance, a statement that you completed the maintenance yourself, displaying mileage and the date the work was performed. Also, receipts for the replacement parts (fluid, filters, etc.) indicating the date and mileage must accompany this statement.

I can understand why you may think that but that is simply not the case. How many vehicles do you think are sitting on Mazdas pre-owned lots right now? A lot, right? Now, knowing they get these vehicles from a variety of sources such as trade ins, purchases from private individuals, and dealer auctions, how many of those do you suppose have detailed maintenance history? The answer is not many. Unless maintenance was reported to carfax or the receipts happen to be in the glove box they simply have no way of knowing yet they still sell these cars every day with the representation that they are under full factory warranty if the age and mileage are appropriate for that warranty. Case in point, theres an individual who posted in this thread that bought a certified pre owned CX-90 with 24k miles on it that had the same rod bearing failure that mine had. After the fact they claim the car went 13k between oil changes. Did they not know that prior to selling the car? How did they find this out after? The answer is they have no idea, not when they sold it and not now. They randomly made up an excuse for the failure and replaced the customers engine due to the fact that they sold it cpo.

It is the dealers obligation to provide a reason why they are claiming lack of maintenance and just saying they didnt see the receipts won't do it. I went through this with Ford last year on a 2019 F150 with a bad motor at 29k miles. It was a work truck so the majority of the truck was pretty much horrible but the motor was spotless inside which is evidence that it had been maintained. Ford inspected it throughly. They agreed and replaced the motor to the tune of 19k dollars of warranty work. The year before that I had a 2018 Infiniti Q50 with 49k miles and 5 years old on a 60k 6 year warranty. The motor locked up. Same thing, we throughly inspected it prior to involving the dealer. The engine was absolutely spotless inside with metal particles everywhere, (a lot like this cx-90) Infiniti pushed back on it a bit but ultimately inspected the motor and replaced it under warranty. 21k in warranty work for a new engine and two turbos. These companies did this because there was no sign of neglect and they knew it, regardless of the fact that there were no service records available for either of those vehicles. They stood behind their product. Something Mazda is failing miserably at.

 

[Rich]

It is the dealers obligation to provide a reason why they are claiming lack of maintenance and just saying they didnt see the receipts won't do it.

Totally wrong. First of all the dealer is only asking for maint. records because the mfg is asking for them. If you want the MFG to honor the warranty you play by their rules and those rules are clearly spelled out in the warranty book. All this other stuff your spouting off about is just noise and not relevant this this situation...additionally if I read another post correctly, the vehicle in question was not purchased from a Mazda dealer but a rental car company... This doesn't automatically void any warranty but it muddies up the waters substantially.

 

[cx90mc]

you make a good point, if someone bought this from a Mazda dealer, they may not even ask for records if you have a relationship with them of any kind. That s still doesn t mean Mazda should just void a warranty without any evidence that the lack of care caused the breakdown. Muddy waters I guess. I do oil changes way before suggested and use the best oil and document it in their Mazda booklet . Do I have ALL the receipts ? Maybe, I haven't looked for them and hope they sit in the garage with my stuff. I have had decades and dozens of new cars. Never had a bad motor, fingers crossed. Mazda should really open the motor and show the damage and the cause. The rental car thing makes me think, abuse? I have some performance cars too and you can damage an engine by redlining a COLD engine. I hope Mazda at least looks into the engine before making a decision to deny. just my 2 cents.

 

[Rich]

you make a good point, if someone bought this from a Mazda dealer, they may not even ask for records if you have a relationship with them of any kind. That s still doesn t mean Mazda should just void a warranty without any evidence that the lack of care caused the breakdown. Muddy waters I guess. I do oil changes way before suggested and use the best oil and document it in their Mazda booklet . Do I have ALL the receipts ? Maybe, I haven't looked for them and hope they sit in the garage with my stuff. I have had decades and dozens of new cars. Never had a bad motor, fingers crossed. Mazda should really open the motor and show the damage and the cause. The rental car thing makes me think, abuse? I have some performance cars too and you can damage an engine by redlining a COLD engine. I hope Mazda at least looks into the engine before making a decision to deny. just my 2 cents.

I see this play out on a regular basis....Most mfg are not sticklers about it unless they just can't document things. Thats when they want to see things. If the vehicle was dealer serviced, even at multiple Mazda dealers this never would have been an issue. In cases with DIY'ers just keep the receipts of the oil and filters you purchase and that usually works fine. Another thing, write the date on the oil filter with a sharpie when you replace it and take a pic. You can never document enough if something hits the fan!

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

Totally wrong. First of all the dealer is only asking for maint. records because the mfg is asking for them. If you want the MFG to honor the warranty you play by their rules and those rules are clearly spelled out in the warranty book. All this other stuff your spouting off about is just noise and not relevant this this situation...additionally if I read another post correctly, the vehicle in question was not purchased from a Mazda dealer but a rental car company... This doesn't automatically void any warranty but it muddies up the waters substantially.

As I said, you may think this but you are in fact wrong. it's simply worded this way to try to dissuade people from pushing back and rather just go away. People such as yourself, who clearly would have have given up and wrote the check or walked away. Muddying the waters is exactly what they hope to do. It does not absolve them of their legal responsobility to honor their warranty, just as not providing the previous owners personal receipts does not absolve them either. I just gave you two examples in the last two years from two different auto manufacturers that replaced engines under the same circumstances as this. This is not heresay, I handled both of these situations personally. Wait til you find out that Mazda as well as many other dealers routinely buy cars from the exact same source this one came from.

 

[Rich]

Well I guess we will just agree to disagree, and let others decide who to believe....Me as a 30 year multi franchise, experienced dealer and you as a disgruntled car owner who is using half truths and pure fiction to try and make a point. I wish you well with your car and hope it works out for you.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

Well I guess we will just agree to disagree, and let others decide who to believe....Me as a 30 year multi franchise, experienced dealer and you as a disgruntled car owner who is using half truths and pure fiction to try and make a point. I wish you well with your car and hope it works out for you.

I have stated no "half truths" or fiction in anything I have posted. I have also made no assumptions or offhand remarks about your background or experience, I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to do so with me. I assure you I am not a "disgruntled car owner". I have a little over 200k worth of Mazdas sitting in my facility at this time, including two CX-90's. I have sold over 200 Mazdas in the last several years and have spent over 300k with the parts department of the dealership thats dealing with the bad engine. Out of all of the Mazdas I've dealt with, only two have been taken to the dealer for warranty work, a cracked head on a 21 CX-5 and a noisy diff in a 21 Miata. I do not present vehicles to the dealer for warranty repair unless I am certain there has been a legitimate failure they are obligated to cover. I have found the Mazda lineup to be absolutely excellent in terms of reliability. I have more experience with them than most so I've been rather surprised with this failure as well as how they have handled the situation. If they had pulled the pan and cam cover and shown evidence of neglect in the form of sludge, coked oil, discolored parts, etc... I would not be arguing this. There is no such evidence. If there was I would have just bought a motor and moved on.

People will ultimately have this same issue. When they do they will search online for similar problems and will find this thread with all the "spouting off" Ive done and it will help them navigate their own issue. What will your input help them with? Running away with their tail between their legs and cutting a check for 15k to repair their brand new car? Doesnt sound very helpful.

Maybe you didnt bother to read this thread whole thread but this car was at a Mazda dealership 12 days before I bought it with the EXACT miles that are on the car now and they reported to carfax only that they replaced the battery. I called the two dealerships that reported to carfax before purchasing the car an I was told the car was "all green" in their system and that one dealership had done recalls while the other had done the battery. They knew this car had issues and failed to document it either out of negligence or with intent, I don't know which. I did all the due diligence I could do in this specific situation.

If you have nothing helpful to ad maybe its best not to participate in this post. I'm sure you have better things to do.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

you make a good point, if someone bought this from a Mazda dealer, they may not even ask for records if you have a relationship with them of any kind. That s still doesn t mean Mazda should just void a warranty without any evidence that the lack of care caused the breakdown. Muddy waters I guess. I do oil changes way before suggested and use the best oil and document it in their Mazda booklet . Do I have ALL the receipts ? Maybe, I haven't looked for them and hope they sit in the garage with my stuff. I have had decades and dozens of new cars. Never had a bad motor, fingers crossed. Mazda should really open the motor and show the damage and the cause. The rental car thing makes me think, abuse? I have some performance cars too and you can damage an engine by redlining a COLD engine. I hope Mazda at least looks into the engine before making a decision to deny. just my 2 cents.

Thats been my point to the service manager, customer experience and mazda mediation, why havent they investigated the issue for evidence of neglect? The reason is because there isnt any. The rental car issue may generate mixed feelings. However, there are MANY cars from the same source as this one sitting on Mazda lots all over the country. They buy them because they are typically liquidated with relatively low miles and still under bumper to bumper warranty. I assure you none of them have any maintenance documentation with them. I know this because I have spent hours on the phone with Firestone. They have the records but they WILL NOT release them due to "privacy" concerns. "Youre not our customer" is what corporate has told me. I know the car has been maintained, Mazda knows it too. If they thought otherwise they'd simply pull the pan and show it. They have no interest in doing so. Wonder why?

 

[Rich]

I just simply explained how the process works...you refuse to accept it and bring in all kinds of examples that have zero involvement in this specific situation...MFG have documented rules for their warranties and you've dismissed that also. also, FYI Mazda CPO requires the use of Experian Auto Check vehicle history reports and not CARFAX. Any Mazda sold by a Mazda dealer as a CPO (I understand yours was not a CPO vehicle) must have a copy of the Auto check in saved in the deal...its very common for one vehicle history report to have an accident or info and the other does not. This is why its important to look at both.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

I just simply explained how the process works...you refuse to accept it and bring in all kinds of examples that have zero involvement in this specific situation...MFG have documented rules for their warranties and you've dismissed that also. also, FYI Mazda CPO requires the use of Experian Auto Check vehicle history reports and not CARFAX. Any Mazda sold by a Mazda dealer as a CPO (I understand yours was not a CPO vehicle) must have a copy of the Auto check in saved in the deal...its very common for one vehicle history report to have an accident or info and the other does not. This is why its important to look at both.

How exactly do my examples of two failed engines with Ford and Infiniti with zero maintenance receipts provided that both resulted in the manufacturers replacing the engines under warranty have zero involvement in this situation?

You can bend over for the companies trying to screw you when you find yourself in this situation. I'll continue to hold them to account. Move along.

 

[Rich]

How exactly do my examples of two failed engines with Ford and Infiniti with zero maintenance receipts provided that both resulted in the manufacturers replacing the engines under warranty have zero involvement in this situation?

Because simply you have a different make and model. Every mfg has their own ways of doing things and their own rules within the guidelines of The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I've also seen Mazda replace engines without extensive documentation and I've also seen Ford ask for complete maintenance records....but every case stands on their own.

 

[Accelerated_Automotive]

Because simply you have a different make and model. Every mfg has their own ways of doing things and their own rules within the guidelines of The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I've also seen Mazda replace engines without extensive documentation and I've also seen Ford ask for complete maintenance records....but every case stands on their own.

I've been doing this for 30 years. Every manufacturer tries to play the same games. Some better, some worse. The policies are no different when it comes to litigation. You are still here advocating for anyone whos bought a car without maintenance receipts to bend over for the manufacturer. In many cases the same manufacturer whos dealership sold them the car. Your input is pointless, move along.

 

[cx90mc]

Because simply you have a different make and model. Every mfg has their own ways of doing things and their own rules within the guidelines of The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I've also seen Mazda replace engines without extensive documentation and I've also seen Ford ask for complete maintenance records....but every case stands on their own.

this is so true. Not saying it s fair, but each case does appear to stand on it s own.
I just don t understand why Mazda will not look at the vehicle? Please tell me a missing oil change receipt (when owner says it was changed) can not be the only factor without other things coming into play.

 

[Rich]

this is so true. Not saying it s fair, but each case does appear to stand on it s own.
I just don t understand why Mazda will not look at the vehicle? Please tell me a missing oil change receipt (when owner says it was changed) can not be the only factor without other things coming into play.

One missing oil change receipt is probably not the trigger here....but the vehicle was purchased used from a rental car company and it was mentioned earlier that the vehicle may have had previous damage. (Rental companies self insure so rental car accidents often don't show up on vehicle history reports like Autocheck/carfax)...so chances are this vehicle has no Mazda dealer internal service records so with a major failure like an engine the MFG will ask for maintenance records (repair orders). The dealer has the vehicle and it appears they determined it needed an engine and Mazda corp asks for records and all work stops until they are presented or the customer decided to pay out of pocket.