Hey @redturbo welcome to the the forum! It does seem like a possibility since the internals are the same. I've never tried to flash tune a Mazda before so I'm not sure how easy/hard it is to do. Would you consider doing it with your CX-90?
Car and Driver released an article today, they included psi for the turbos:
2024 Mazda CX-90 Reaches for Luxe (caranddriver.com)
CX-90s come in three models: Turbo, Turbo S, and PHEV (plug-in hybrid). The first two are powered by an engine that helps the CX-90 feel like the real deal: a 3.3-liter turbocharged inline-six with a 48-volt, 17-hp hybrid-assist system. A 280-hp version of the engine with 332-pound feet of torque powers the Turbo; this version runs on regular fuel. A 340-hp version of the six making 369 pound-feet of torque on premium fuel motivates the Turbo S. Both engines' internals are identical; Mazda turns up the boost on the more powerful variant by roughly 5 psi to about 19 psi and adjusts other engine parameters to take advantage of higher-octane fuel. The plug-in hybrid mates a 189-hp 2.5-liter turbo four with a 173-hp electric motor for a combined 323 horsepower and 369 pound-feet of torque, also on premium fuel.
absolutely, especially if they have a way to flash back to stock for warranty workHey @redturbo welcome to the the forum! It does seem like a possibility since the internals are the same. I've never tried to flash tune a Mazda before so I'm not sure how easy/hard it is to do. Would you consider doing it with your CX-90?
Thanks for the info. Though it is possible the difference is Turbo vs Turbo S, I think it's more likely to be part of the extra towing capacity on certain trims. i.e., it's needed to have 5000lb rated towing capacity.So after doing some digging on parts diagrams, I found a hardware variation within 3.3L designators. A optionality with a secondary radiator that cools the water that feeds the air-to-water intercooler that the new I6 platform uses. I suspect this equipment is on the Turbo S models, to provide a cooler intake charge to deal with the higher heat output from the higher output tuning. Without the sub-radiator, the intercooler is simply fed from the main radiator. The sub-radiator also contains a secondary water pump to cycle its closed water loop through the intercooler. My theory is this is at least one hardware difference between the two engine variations. There doesn't appear to be any variations in the short block/long block or transmission though. So while theoretically the base engine could be tuned up the S output, it likely will need that additional cooling to keep things safe.
There is no way they would run radiator fluid at 200 degrees thru the air to water intercooler, you would get way to much detonation. Ambiant air to air is way better than this. The purpose of air to water is for a cooler charge than air to air and also delay heat soak.Thanks for the info. Though it is possible the difference is Turbo vs Turbo S, I think it's more likely to be part of the extra towing capacity on certain trims. i.e., it's needed to have 5000lb rated towing capacity.
So this only exists on 3.3L, the 2.5L (PHEV) has a completely separate parts bin (the PHEV has the lower towing capacity). As I thought all 3.3L had the same towing capacity.Thanks for the info. Though it is possible the difference is Turbo vs Turbo S, I think it's more likely to be part of the extra towing capacity on certain trims. i.e., it's needed to have 5000lb rated towing capacity.
The 3.3L does have an air-to-water intercooler, it sits tucked underneath the intake manifold. ECT (what is displayed on your dash) is the temp of coolant as its leaving the engine to be cooled. So that water will be cooled by both the main radiator, then the sub-radiator, before making its way to the A2W intercooler, or simply just the main radiator in the non-S config. The diagrams are a bit hard to follow, but there is a connection between the main radiator and the sub-radiator, but appears to be on the cold side main radiator.There is no way they would run radiator fluid at 200 degrees thru the air to water intercooler, you would get way to much detonation. Ambiant air to air is way better than this. The purpose of air to water is for a cooler charge than air to air and also delay heat soak.
If you look up post radiator temps they are between 160 and 190 degrees, depending on load. Using your 20% loss for the secondary radiator, you are between 128 and 152 degrees, way more than ambient. Think about in the winter, there will be no power or effciency gains since your still running the air thru 128 degrees plus. I own a BMW 340i and it has a air to water intercooler that is a seperate system and radiator.So this only exists on 3.3L, the 2.5L (PHEV) has a completely separate parts bin (the PHEV has the lower towing capacity).
The 3.3L does have an air-to-water intercooler, it sits tucked underneath the intake manifold. ECT (what is displayed on your dash) is the temp of coolant as its leaving the engine to be cooled. So that water will be cooled by both the main radiator, then the sub-radiator, before making its way to the A2W intercooler, or simply just the main radiator in the non-S config. The diagrams are a bit hard to follow, but there is a connection between the main radiator and the sub-radiator, but appears to be on the cold side main radiator.
A ballpark figure of 35% heat exchange requirement for modern automotive radiators puts post cooling temps at ~130F from 200F. Put that through another cooler and you can probably get much closer to ambient air, but even being very conservative, assuming a lower heat exchange rate on the secondary cooler of say 20% puts you at 105F (lower ambient temps will make this second exchange significantly more efficient, but there are diminishing returns). Manifold air temps post air-to-air intercoolers can easily exceed 130F during persistent load, even aftermarket cores. The air-to-water core has less reliance on air flow, and is thus harder to heat soak.
While you are not wrong that putting 200F coolant through an air-to-water intercooler would cause detonation, its just not what is happening in practice.
Thanks for the digging! Now we just wait for an aftermarket tuning company to add some boost and spark to the tables before we roll race the X5's in turbo non-s!To recap - 3.3L uses an air-to-water intercooler, and per the diagrams above, the sub-radiator is connected to the main radiator.
But there are many things that aren't well labeled/connected per parts diagrams. It is likely that the main radiator is actually a two core radiator 1 core for engine coolant, 2nd core for transmission coolant. And the additional sub-radiator is for the transmission side loop, and it is this loop that feeds the A2W intercooler and the transmission.
This scenario would explain the two lowest trim levels of the non-S having a lower towing capacity, making the radiator simply a function towing capacity not power. If this were the case, then turbo preferred plus and up may be identical mechanically.
As far as ECTs go, display gauges and idiot lights are usually for coolant leaving the engine. You do not typically see your temp gauge jump from ambient to operating temp in a very short amount of time when the thermostat opens up, but I am speaking generically. You wouldn't want your primary coolant temp ECU input post radiator / pre-engine as a safety precaution, its a lagged indicator at that point. You want the best measurement of heat coming out of the engine, or the temp of coolant as it leaves the engine. So the operating temperature target of around 190F is the steady state temp of your coolant as it leaves the engine.
Makes sense.To recap - 3.3L uses an air-to-water intercooler, and per the diagrams above, the sub-radiator is connected to the main radiator.
But there are many things that aren't well labeled/connected per parts diagrams. It is likely that the main radiator is actually a two core radiator 1 core for engine coolant, 2nd core for transmission coolant. And the additional sub-radiator is for the transmission side loop, and it is this loop that feeds the A2W intercooler and the transmission. I am not convinced of this, because you typically cool transmission fluid directly in dual core radiators, but with how new this all is its hard to say.
Edit: I think I have somewhat figured it out, the transmission cooling is cooling a voltage converter and some other high voltage components on the transmission, but it still appears to share a common overflow with the main radiator. The only connection I cant actually verify is the other end of the sub-radiator (15-1J0 no. 3) in the diagrams, as 15-200 (no. 1 ) is the generic part id for the main radiator...
It doesn't look like this cooling loop is for the transmission fluid, I am guessing that is a separate cooler. This scenario may or may not explain the two lowest trim levels of the non-S having a lower towing capacity, making the radiator simply a function of towing capacity not power. If this were the case, then turbo preferred plus and up may be identical mechanically.
As far as ECTs go, display gauges and idiot lights are usually for coolant leaving the engine. You do not typically see your temp gauge jump from ambient to operating temp in a very short amount of time when the thermostat opens up, but I am speaking generically. You wouldn't want your primary coolant temp ECU input post radiator / pre-engine as a safety precaution, its a lagged indicator at that point. You want the best measurement of heat coming out of the engine, or the temp of coolant as it leaves the engine. So the operating temperature target of around 190F is the steady state temp of your coolant as it leaves the engine.
Awesome find, where did you find these tables? I have been looking for oil capacity for some time lolAh, did anyone happen to check the specs? Subradiator appears to be towing related & Intercooler listed as a separate capacity/system which is the same between Standard vs Turbo S.
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